Comments on Catholic and Reformed: The Last Chrism Mass

Jeremy:From what little I hear, facturing congrega...

2008-03-19T14:13:00.000-04:00

Jeremy:

From what little I hear, facturing congregations/families was a major concern for conservative clergy in their decision to no join the realignment movement. As for Acsension and St. Stephens, both rectors are on record for leaving. I wonder if someone more concillatory were leading them if they'd be so millitant?
(and I'm not saying there are those who wouldn't want to leave even if a less "we have to go" rector/leadership were in place. I'm just posing a question).

What will happen to those people in parishes who don't wish to leave? (there are some at St. Stephen's, albeit not many :) ) How will the clergy of those people meet the needs of those not wishing to leave?
I've watched my parents agonize over their parish. They are not liberals but wish to stay with remain Episcopalian. There isn't a parish within miles for them to receive the sacraments providing a split does come.

As I've said, I pray for Bishop Bob but he must minister to all in this flock, not just those who find separation the only solution.

What a mess, but these are some of the things I think will be important in the near future and will be concerns for all sides.

Bob
Ps. It's nice to have a good dialogue with the other side, Thanks. Peace

Bob,I quite agree that we the laity are suffering ...

2008-03-19T12:50:00.000-04:00

Bob,

I quite agree that we the laity are suffering and will suffer quite as much as the clergy.

I'm not sure, in Pittsburgh at least, that one can view recent developments as the fault of clergy alone. There are clergy here who are dubious (or worse) about the way forward and laypeople that are committed heart and soul (try visiting Ascension, Oakland, or St. Stephen's, Sewickley).

I would agree that the clergy need to be watching those worsening relations between and within families and offering appropriate pastoral care. I'm sure this was one of the factors at work in the decisions of the Pittsburgh Twelve (though by no means the only one).

I was particulary struck by the statement that cle...

2008-03-19T12:33:00.000-04:00

I was particulary struck by the statement that clergy won't be able to have fellowship. As things have progressed I have seen the relationship between my former rector and myself grow horribly cold. Old friends pass by trying to eek out a hello but always worried that the subject of church will come up. It seems for so long my personal faith was that personal. My relationship to God was something nurtured by those around me but never dictated. Now, after growing up in front of some of these peoples very eyes, I'm now someone different, someone to be shunned or at best ackenowledged albeit with much reserve.

The real sadness is many lay people are victims of what I believe is a clergy generated fight. I feel for Bishop Bob but his is not the only life in distress.

Let me conclude by reiterating that not just clergy are lossing friends/colleagues, so are the laity (even inter family battles).
maybe thats something the clergy needs to be more pastoral about.

My prayer for this holy week is for tolerance, openess, reconcillation and love, In Christ Name.

Peace, Bob

Daniel,I'm glad that I appear to have captured the...

2008-03-18T21:21:00.000-04:00

Daniel,

I'm glad that I appear to have captured the mood of the service. I would still urge that we keep in mind the spirit that Kendall invited us to adopt for Holy Week, even if what we feel can only be expressed along the lines of "Father forgive them . . ."

After all, +Bob himself would not - and did not today - claim perfection of word and deed. What we feel for those on the other sides (deliberate use of the plural) is in part a function of our own frustration. At least, I know that is the case with me.

A blessed Triduum to you.

Thanks, Jeremy. The service was a powerfully sober...

2008-03-18T18:43:00.000-04:00

Thanks, Jeremy. The service was a powerfully sobering event, yet at Communion I felt a great deal of joy and gratitude for the past six years I have had Duncan as my Bishop and the clergy of the diocese as my colleagues. And throughout this morning's Mass, I could not help reflecting how a person who has faithfully and consistently preached the Good News of Jesus Christ has been threatened with deposition by a person whose understanding of "new life in Christ" encompasses bovine flatulence.